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750K HD DVD Players In The Wild Says HD DVD Group

Posted by Tyler Pruitt on November 27, 2007 
Filed Under: Format War, HD DVD



HDDVDlogo.jpegThe HD DVD Promotion Group is claiming they now have 750K players in consumer hands. This figure does include the XBOX HD DVD add-on drive, as well as all HD DVD stand alone players. We estimate that the standalone players account for 500k, while the XBOX drive accounts for the other 250K. No word on if the numbers include combo players or HD DVD Laptops. Now all the HD DVD Group needs is for people to buy movies, instead of just watching the free ones that came with their player.

[via HDDVD.com]

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15 Responses to “750K HD DVD Players In The Wild Says HD DVD Group”

  1. Devils Advocate on November 27th, 2007 8:38 am

    We’ll see if this can result in an actual software lead.   My money says it wont.

  2. James Segars on November 27th, 2007 1:08 pm

    This is great news, especially when you consider that I was writing
    earlier this month that they were estimating they would sell a total of
    500k standalone players by the end of November! Assuming these figures
    are spot on, HD DVD is exactly on track with their predictions.   @
    Devils AdvocateI canít agree with you in the least bit here.  How could
    you possibly be arguing that more hardware wonít move more software? 
     There is no possible logic that you could use to back up your
    argument.  Bear in mind, Iím not trying to agitate you, and I know
    weíve had our differences in the past, but you donít strike me as an
    unreasonable guy, so this statement just comes as a bit of a shock to
    me.   More hardware sold will translate to more software sold.  When has
    the opposite been true?  Better yet, does it makes sense that with a
    recent influx of hardware that LESS software would be sold,
    indefinitely?  No.  As Tyler mentioned briefly the people who walked
    away with their new players have a good deal of free movies to chew
    through before they bite the bullet and start buying into HD DVD on
    their own terms.   I was exactly the same way when I bought my HD DVD
    add-on this time last year, and I only had one free HD DVD!  I didnít
    start to gain confidence in the format until the holidays, and I saw a
    flood of great titles make their way to retail shelves. The same is
    true now as it was then.  The blow-out sale was a well timed offensive,
    whether people see it, or choose to see it.  Consumers will have over a
    month to "fall in love" with HD DVD, and just as their HD DVD reserves
    begin to run dry, the Holidays will be upon them, along with some great
    software sales and thatís when youíll see the sales for the software
    start to rise.   Both sides will see a boost in sales this holiday
    season with incredible titles being released on both formats.  Itís
    hard to imagine either format not driving more disc sales than they did
    last holiday season.   I think you can definitely agree with me on that, right?

  3. Devils Advocate on November 27th, 2007 3:38 pm

    I just said that these numbers are unlikely to propel HD-DVD ahead of bluray.  There are far more PS3s on the market than there are HD-DVD players and so far none of the tactics put out by HD-DVD such as $99 HD-DVD players has moved Blurays YTD numbers.  Heck, Shrek 3 was supposed to be a HUGE title for HD-DVD and all they could muster that week was 66:34.Seriously, how can that make HD-DVD feel good??? Thats the logic I use. There are always going to be more PS3s than HD-DVD players and from Im told is that the bluray players actually sold pretty well on black friday, too.  I feel that no matter how many HD-DVD players are sold, that the PS3 and standalone sales will always be able to counter the effect. Show me numbers that prove me wrong.  Excuse me while I wait for the "You just wait and see" argument.   

  4. Tyler Pruitt on November 27th, 2007 3:44 pm

    I hope there are no BOGO type sales during the Harry Potter week so we can get some accurate numbers.

  5. Devils Advocate on November 27th, 2007 4:03 pm

    I predict that Harry Potter on bluray will outsell HD-DVD by a good margin.  If HD-DVD is able to sell well vs. bluray and the ratio is under 55:45, Ill say that HD-DVD is closing the gap. Im format neutral, so either way I win (or lose)  :-)  

  6. C on November 27th, 2007 6:33 pm

    You’re not going to see any huge bump in disc sales for a while, despite the fact that HD DVD’s are flying off the shelf. Keep in mind that a lot of them are intended for Christmas gifts, so it will be a while before they are put in use.
    Also, despite the fact that HD has a much higher attach rate (4-1?) per player, it will take a long, long time to equal BD sales strictly b/c of the PS3.
    What’s more important for HD DVD at this point, I think, is recognition by the public as the affordable format, which I think they are doing quite well. There is finally a widespread recognition by the public as to what HD DVD is, thanks to Wal-Mart and the Christmas promotions.
     

  7. C on November 27th, 2007 6:34 pm

    Oops, I meant HD DVD players in the first paragraph.

  8. Devils Advocate on November 27th, 2007 9:38 pm

    That could be HD-DVDs biggest problem.  By the time the holidays are over, it could be too late and Warner could go bluray exclusive and/or Universal could go format neutral.  HD-DVD cant keep on playing the waiting game, if they want to win they have to WIN.  You can quote attach rates and all that, but none of that matters if they cannot sell the amount media as bluray can.  Im sorry, but that is a battle they must win.  Does anyone seriously disagree? Also, I still question whether those who would only buy a $99 player would also be willing to shell out $30 per movie and how many of those will end up being used on standard def and upconverting TVs?  I have yet to see it happen, but Sony, Samsung and Philips, I have heard from several insiders are going to start bundling their standalone players with HDTV purchases.  To me this is a FAR FAR FAR better deal than a $99 HD-DVD player, because you are putting HDM in the hands of people that WANT and will likely use it.Thats not to say that the $99 players didnt help HD-DVD. Im sure they did. Whether they hellp HD-DVD enough to overcome blurays sales advantage is the million dollar question. I will reiterate my original stance before Segars got all bent out of shape and that is:I dont think these will $99 players will sway people towards HD-DVD to counter blurays sales advantage.Dave, do you have an opinion?  You’ve been quiet lately.     

  9. Tyler Pruitt on November 28th, 2007 4:04 am

    Dave is out of town right now, im sure he will pop in when he gets a chance.

  10. C on November 28th, 2007 8:32 am

    DA,
    I don’t see that as a problem for HD DVD this holiday season…I guess we see two sides of the same coin. HD definitely has the buzz, name recognition and the momentum in player sales, even though BD will keep outselling in disc sales. Like it or not, the fate of BD hangs on the PS3 now, and Warner will have to judge for themselves if they want their entire high-def catalogue to rest on that gaming console alone. I think it’s safe to say that the BD stand-alone players are effectively out of the competition now.
    Regarding the bundling deals…I’m not so sure why everyone keeps bringing this up b/c it’s been going on for a long, long time. Best Buy has been offering bundling deals since last spring, as far as I remember. I don’t think it will make any significant impact as it hasn’t already.

  11. James Segars on November 28th, 2007 3:39 pm

    @DAHere’s the main problem I have with your latest posts.  You say things like this:  There are always going to be more PS3s than HD-DVD players. Seriously?  How can you say such a statement with such finality?  Considering the fact that there are only over 2 Million PS3′s in North America, last I heard, the standalone sales for HD DVD aren’t all that far behind, especially when you factor in the price of the hardware.  Where the PS3 is grossly behind in their sales projections, the HD DVD hardware has consistently maintained their projected sales estimates, and by early 2008 they expect to have sold over 1 Million HD DVD players.   Sure, if there were no demand for cheap HD DVD hardware, I would agree with you, but that’s not the world we’re living in.  If a three day sale can move ninety-thousand units, or more, you have to wonder what would happen if that were the permanent price for the entry level HD DVD hardware, the HD A3.  And yes, this is the "wait and see" argument you dread so much, but it’s far better than all inclusive, baseless statements, such as yours regarding the PS3 indefinitely outselling HD DVD hardware.  And, even if the PS3 outsold HD DVD hardware, how could that possibly guarantee the success of Blu-ray?  As C pointed out above, it is not in any Studio’s best interests to rely on a gaming system alone for all of their HD disc revenue.  With that being said, the Blu-ray crowd is playing the "wait and see" card as well.  What, with their reliance on the PS3 to strike a killing blow against HD DVD, and their half baked format.  It’s been over a year since the PS3′s release but HD DVD is still alive and well, despite what any of the weekly disc sales report says.  That’s the format war under a microscope, and that’s not the way to analyze something of this nature.   Lastly, I think its rather insulting for you to assume that people who spend their money on HD DVD hardware, simply won’t have the money to support the software.  How exactly did you arrive at that brilliant conclusion?  Let’s apply that to DVD hardware, shall we?  Joe Schmo buys a $200 DVD player back in 2000… fast-forward five years and he now owns over 100 titles.  Of course, not everyone is  an avid DVD collector, but the sales ratio is probably somewhere between 25-50:1 for DVD sales.  You see where I’m going with this?  We are still in the infancy of the format war, and it’s going to be a pissing match until one side or the other makes significant progress by the way of disc sales and hardware sales.  As it stands, both the software and hardware sales are significantly behind DVD, as has been stated by many people here and elsewhere.  It’s only been a little over a year since these formats were released to the public, and it is still in the early adoption phase, regardless of how many PS3′s are out in the wild.  Do they help?  Absolutely.  Are they the HD DVD destroyer they hoped it would be?  Not yet, no.  Things could change a lot within the next couple of years.  The point is that nothing is certain, and while I may be arguing that things could go one way or the other, or that we need to wait and see, it angers me immensely to see someone speak with such finality about things they couldn’t possibly know for certain.  The main difference here of course is that when I said previously that disc sales would increase over the holidays that’s a no-brainer, and I also said that I expected both HD DVD and Blu-ray’s disc sales to rise, not one or the other exclusively.   Tell you what, in the future, in order to prevent me, and people like myself, from getting so riled up, why don’t you do us a favor and place something along the lines of, I think, before anything speculative, so we know for sure that it is solely your opinion and not a proposed statement of fact. I realize this is going to come off being a bit terse, but some of what you’ve said above really fired me up.   

  12. Devils Advocate on November 28th, 2007 5:18 pm

    James, I think you’re taking this way too personally and I seriously dont know how to respond, because HD-DVD camp makes silly statements all the time.  Dont believe me?  Go to http://www.engadget.com and read posts by a guy named Nfinity and ull see what I mean.  Now, you’re not Nfinity or even close, but I simply dont understand how you got so bent out of shape over saying that I dont believe that these $99 HD-DVD players are going to cut into blurays winning numbers the way that HD-DVD camp is hoping.  I simply dont believe that, because the numbers we have seen so far are not supporting that.   I also dont believe that those who are ONLY willing to spend $100 on an HD-DVD player are less likely to spend $30 on HD movies.  Can I prove that? No.  Could I be wrong? Sure, but so far the data has not supported that.  Thats how I feel and I can promise you that plenty of people feel the same way.  Im sorry, but all I have seen so far are 66:34 wins for bluray week after week.   Do the numbers tell the whole story?  No, but they do tell a story that continues to be less than favorable for HD-DVD and everytime HD-DVD believes they get some momentum, the numbers continue to tell a different story.  Do I think HD-DVD can win this war?  Yes, I do, which is why I purchased an HD-DVD player. Im just hedging my bets.I hope that calms you down.  You should see how I respond to Nfinity’s comments/ 

    Reply | http://www.engadget.com and read posts by a guy named Nfinity and ull see what I mean.  Now, you\’re not Nfinity or even close, but I simply dont understand how you got so bent out of shape over saying that I dont believe that these $99 HD-DVD players are going to cut into blurays winning numbers the way that HD-DVD camp is hoping.  I simply dont believe that, because the numbers we have seen so far are not supporting that.   I also dont believe that those who are ONLY willing to spend $100 on an HD-DVD player are less likely to spend $30 on HD movies.  Can I prove that? No.  Could I be wrong? Sure, but so far the data has not supported that.  Thats how I feel and I can promise you that plenty of people feel the same way.  Im sorry, but all I have seen so far are 66:34 wins for bluray week after week.   Do the numbers tell the whole story?  No, but they do tell a story that continues to be less than favorable for HD-DVD and everytime HD-DVD believes they get some momentum, the numbers continue to tell a different story.  Do I think HD-DVD can win this war?  Yes, I do, which is why I purchased an HD-DVD player. Im just hedging my bets.I hope that calms you down.  You should see how I respond to Nfinity\’s comments\/ ’); return false;”>Quote
  13. C on November 28th, 2007 9:33 pm

    I wouldn’t bother with posters on other sites…there are nutjobs for both formats on engadget and gizmodo, and they pretty much troll around to other sites as well. Look for a poster named h4idol, he’s a BD schill and he’s a riot.
    "HD DVD makes silly statements all the time"…that’s like Blu-Ray calling the kettle black.
     
     

  14. WillHanlon on November 28th, 2007 11:39 pm

    I know many people who would buy a $100 player to use with a HDTV and buy plenty of HD-DVDs.  I think the price drop will make a difference especially if the general public realizes HD-DVD is affordable.

  15. James Segars on November 29th, 2007 8:35 am

    @DA It’s all good man, I was just worried that you were shifting towards Blu-ray zealotry.  Those statements you made up above, the ones that set me off, they just reek of fanaticism.  You and I but heads all the time, and that’s part of the fun when it comes to arguing with you, because we can argue our points with out getting overtly hostile.  I realize that I was being a bit harsh up above, but as I’ve gone on to say before, I can’t stand to see people wielding opinions as facts.  That is the easiest way to spread disinformation, and that is just one thing that this format war needs nothing more of.  You would agree with that, right?  I agree that the weekly sales data has been less than impressive since the player sale, but we know the buying power is there.  Even without the 90k players from Nov. 2nd, HD DVD was able to serve up a 49% share for disc sales the week of the Transformers release.  Of course, it wasn’t a total victory because HD DVD wasn’t able to overturn the Blu-ray sales lead, but it was still a sign of strength.  In addition to that, Blu-ray has been maintaining promotional sales ever since that scare in order to prevent HD DVD from nabbing the sales lead for NPD.  At the end of the day, the Blu-ray crowd is hiding behind the NPD sales figures, and HD DVD is hiding behind the higher standalone sales.  Personally I feel more comfortable casting my vote with dedicated standalone hardware sales, as opposed to rapidly fluctuating sales data.  I don’t think that either of us are wrong, but I do think that it is still too early to say with total certainty which format is in the lead.  Many people would disagree with me, but we’re still dealing with a infantile market and the sales are indicative of this.  If 100k worth of disc units sold is a big deal, we’re still in the early stages of the war.  Neither format will be in danger of losing the war until we start seeing millions of discs sold per title  Don’t you agree?

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