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Sony Says Blu-ray Set-top Players Out-selling HD DVD

Posted by Dave Cowl on September 6, 2007 
Filed Under: Blu-ray, HD DVD



bd2.jpgVideobusiness is reporting that Blu-ray Disc set-top players, within the last 12 weeks, have begun out-selling HD DVD set-top players, according to recent NPD Group research cited by Sony Electronics at CEDIA.

Sony VP Chris Fawcett didn’t provide exact market share percentages of the two sides, noting that the change occurred mostly due to the introduction of Sony’s $499 player.

[Read]

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Comments

26 Responses to “Sony Says Blu-ray Set-top Players Out-selling HD DVD”

  1. Kris on September 6th, 2007 10:12 am

    More false information by Sony, never ceases to amaze me what Sony will try and say in their marketing, but if they think they’ll be outselling their horrendously overpriced players that dont even have complete specs this holiday season after Paramount/Dreamworks dropped their asses, and competing with $199 HD DVD players or less that are complete and come with ethernet ports, PiP, full interactivity, etc.. they are living in a blu-dream.

  2. Segarsj on September 6th, 2007 10:54 am

    And we’re supposed to believe this?

    What are they worried about anyway, they won the format war way back in February of this year… right?

    ;)

  3. Dave Cowl on September 6th, 2007 12:32 pm

    I guess you can choose to not believe the NPD numbers. I know some people don’t believe the Videoscan numbers.

    It seems to me that, assuming it is true, the bargain basement pricing approach of the Toshiba A2 is not having the desired effect.

  4. Tyler Pruitt on September 6th, 2007 12:48 pm

    I don’t believe either side when it comes to these type of claims. I want real full NPD numbers :)

  5. Dave Cowl on September 6th, 2007 12:49 pm

    The graph I just found shows BD at 55%, HD at 43% and Dual Format at 2%.

  6. Chris on September 6th, 2007 1:12 pm

    I might be mistaken, but wasn’t this debunked over at AVS already?

  7. Segarsj on September 6th, 2007 1:36 pm

    @Dave Cowl

    Here’s another problem that I have with the graph Sony chose to present this data. According to them they were in the lead with 55% market share for standalone sales, but the graph conveniently stops at 8/18/07.

    If you remember correctly, the Paramount/Dreamworks switch was 8/20/07.

    So… while they may need time to process the sales figures, I can’t imagine they don’t have anything beyond 8/18/07, and in my opinion it is nothing more than slick damage control to maintain face in the format war.

    I know for a fact that my local Best Buy sold six Toshiba HD DVD standalones, and not a single Blu-ray standalone player in the same time period, and what’s more, the employees that work there told me that they had been selling them up until the paramount/dreamworks switch, but that the sales have remained stagnant, while HD DVD sales (both hardware and software) have begun to climb almost exponentially.

    My local Best Buy is only one store, but I’ve heard similar things from a lot of people.

    The bottom line? I need to see hard proof from multiple sources, and beyond that I want to see the numbers following the Paramount/Dreamworks move, because I believe that those will paint an entirely different picture altogether.

  8. Chris on September 6th, 2007 1:54 pm

    If anyone is interested in doing some reading…draw your own conclusions.

    From AVS, via Video Business talkback:

    This is the same comment as the one at IFA. A BD insider already admited the number is REVENUE, and not market share. Toshiba is still well ahead in market share. BD players cost more, so of course the number would be higher. The BD insider is TalkStr8, his comment is located on AVS, and is listed as an official BD insider. Wonder why the Sony rep wont release the figures? Please check all facts.

  9. Segarsj on September 6th, 2007 2:07 pm

    *The six HD DVD players were sold in a weeks time through 8/25/07 to 9/1/08.

    I accidentally forgot to include that in my last post.

  10. Dave Cowl on September 6th, 2007 2:23 pm

    The graph they showed clear states units if you see a larger version.

    Sony is not the only company getting NPD data. If the data presented is somehow misleading, it is up to someone else present the data \’differently\’.

    Also, how much impact do you think the Paramount announcement has? What percentage of people who buy stuff follow the news anything like we do?

    If you go to Frys, the Paramount titles are still there. It will take some time before they sell out and it is apparent to most that they are no longer available.

  11. Chris on September 6th, 2007 3:13 pm
  12. Segarsj on September 6th, 2007 3:35 pm

    Amen to that Chris.

    Glad to see that Toshiba wasn’t going to let this bullshit stand.

  13. Dave Cowl on September 6th, 2007 4:14 pm

    Haha, they claim a win by quoting JULY!

    Yeah, deleting August is the right way to win that argument.

  14. Chris on September 6th, 2007 6:37 pm

    They were quoting year-to-date numbers, not just the month of July.

    Which makes Sony’s claim all the more bizarre/suspect.

  15. Dave Cowl on September 6th, 2007 6:51 pm

    Not really.

    Sony claims that they sold better over the last twelve weeks, which is essentially the data that is not presented if you look at NPD’s July information.

    If you look at the chart on this page you can see exactly how it plays out.

    If the BD player sales maintain this ratio they will eventually pass the longer averages like YTD and even Since Inception numbers.

  16. Dave Cowl on September 6th, 2007 7:18 pm

    Something that is interesting/suspicious is that the Sony chart only shows percentages not actual sales numbers.

    One can only assume that the actual sales numbers either are embarrassing for Sony or are embarrassing to the whole market (like they are for media sales – we always seem to imagine more sales than there actually are and are shocked when the actual numbers are released).

  17. Segarsj on September 6th, 2007 7:44 pm

    @Dave

    I’m sorry but you can’t reference to that chart. It’s flawed. It doesn’t include anything after the Paramount/Dreamworks shift.

    I know I’ve said this before, but I can’t stress it enough.

    If you honestly believe that HD DVD player sales have suffered, and that Blu-ray players are outselling HD DVD, how can you begin to explain the fact that the A2 held the #1 sales position amongst EVERY electronic item on Amazon’s site? Has any Blu-ray standalone come anywhere close to that? No. Not even close.

    And of course, the expected rebuttal, “Well the A2 hasn’t been the #1 selling electronic item for long.” You’re right, but it has steadily maintained its position within the upper ranks amongst all available DVD players on Amazon. Also it has very seldom, if ever dipped below the top 10, and it has been spending most of its time fluctuating between the #1 and #2 spots, and when it’s not there, it’s well within the top 5. It’s not alone, either. The A20 and the XA2 are both currently ranked within the top 25 dvd players, at #9 and #22 respectively. Christ, even the A1 is in the top 100.

    So I’m sorry to say it. Assuming that data is correct, which I truly believe it’s not, then Blu-ray had a nice stint at leading standalone sales for ~4 weeks, but ever since the Paramount/Dreamworks move, HD DVD has been killing it with respect to HD standalone hardware.

    Sure Amazon is only one source for your HD hardware, but I think many won’t hesitate to agree that is arguably the best resource for all of your HD hardware and software.

    I personally don’t see how you could disagree with that, nor do I foresee you discounting those sales rankings which clearly place HD DVD in front of Blu-ray.

    If you want to stick to those charts and graphs, be my guest, but you have to be willing to admit that it could be nothing more than a weak attempt at damage control to keep Blu-ray in the game. They haven’t lost by any means, but for you to blindly declare that the Blu-ray sales have and will continue to eclipse HD DVD in light of the increased sales figures on Amazon, you’re just kidding yourself.

  18. Dave Cowl on September 6th, 2007 9:10 pm

    The fact that Toshiba used numbers released in July to refute the Sony claim indicates to me that the numbers they presented are as up to date as possible, otherwise Toshiba would have used more recent data (and/or Sony would have also if it favoured them).

    I am sure that if Sony presented inaccurate data, claiming it to be NPD data, they could easily be proven wrong and Toshiba is obviously collecting the same data and did not offer anything alternative for the time period Sony claimed Blu-ray hardware was ahead.

    People buy players from B&M stores more than online – it is much easier to return items to a store.

    You can choose to ignore data that does not support your cause – I won\’t lose any sleep.

    Tomorrow we will get to see how HD DVD software sales did after the announcement and with no Blu-ray competition in new titles for the week. If HD DVD did not finally win the week, it is not good news for HD DVD.

  19. Segarsj on September 7th, 2007 8:01 am

    Well if all of these Blu-ray players are being sold through stores like Best Buy and such, explain to me why I see nothing but opened/returned Blu-ray units and the same boxed players sitting on the shelves for weeks at a time, when they can’t seem to keep the A2 or the A20 on the shelves, with the Best Buy near me moving anywhere between 6-8 players a week.

    And no, this isn’t speculation, I’ve talked to a number of employees there and they all tell me the same thing. Blu-ray standalone players are an absolute bitch for them to sell, while the HD DVD players practically sell themselves.

  20. Segarsj on September 7th, 2007 8:14 am
  21. Segarsj on September 7th, 2007 8:43 am

    @Dave

    “I am sure that if Sony presented inaccurate data, claiming it to be NPD data, they could easily be proven wrong and Toshiba is obviously collecting the same data and DID NOT OFFER ANYTHING ALTERNATIVE FOR THE TIME PERIOD Sony claimed Blu-ray hardware was ahead.”

    Are you serious?! Did you even read the official statement? Here it is again. Read it slowly.

    “Based on July data from NPD, TOSHIBA had a 55% market share year to date in high definition stand alone player sales followed by all BLU-RAY companies at a combined 42%; the final 3 percent is held by dual format players.”

    Ok, Dave. You say that it’s suspect that Toshiba is using NPD numbers from the month of July, right? Well, you realize why they’re doing that right?

    That stupid chart you’re clinging to covers several weeks, and the entire month of July is covered in the chart, and not that I’m surprised, but the area of the chart where Blu-ray manages to edge out HD DVD standalone sales is during which month? Yep, July.

    So no, Toshiba isn’t trying to hide behind old numbers, they’re trying to make people like you realize that Sony always does their best to dazzle people with false numbers, so they can remain in the game.

    I’m sorry to be so abrasive, but it blows my mind that you are not only refusing to acknowledge the falsity of the graph that you’re touting, but that you’re claiming that I’m choosing to ignore the facts when I’m the one who is actually trying to sift through all of the bullshit to root out the truth instead of accepting Sony’s claims blindly.

    Considering how much you value your beloved NPD numbers, how can you argue with the fact that Sony’s claims are in direct contrast with the numbers that NPD has gathered for the month of July, which effectively turns the tables, leaving HD DVD in the lead?

  22. Dave Cowl on September 7th, 2007 8:58 am

    I read the statement.

    Toshiba presented YEAR TO DATE ratio.

    Sony presented WEEKLY sales ratios.

    The Toshiba numbers included sales from the whole year and Sony’s did not. Sony’s chart also includes some of August which Toshiba appears to ignore – I think we can assume that those August numbers don’t help Toshiba’s case.

    Again I am sorry that the numbers don’t support what you want them to. But I think you will find that neither Sony nor Toshiba can present NPD numbers that are not correct and get away with it, because everyone in the industry gets the same report.

    They just present the numbers in the format that most helps their cause – this goes for both Sony and Toshiba.

  23. Segarsj on September 7th, 2007 9:30 am

    Let’s just agree to disagree and we’ll both wait for the year-ending sales figures, as those will definitely give the most accurate depiction of how this standalone war played out over ’07.

    What do you say?

  24. Dave Cowl on September 7th, 2007 9:42 am

    I am pretty sure that we disagree :) Which is fine. Diversity of ideas makes life more interesting.

  25. NightHanlon on September 7th, 2007 12:46 pm

    I think it’s pretty obvious you can’t believe anything Sony says. I’d question Toshiba a little bit too, but I’ll never believe Sony. They’re feeding everyone propaganda like any good greedy corporation would to try to win as much money as possible. This format war shouldn’t even be happening.

  26. Ryan on September 10th, 2007 11:11 am

    HaHa, Sony must have GW Bush on their staff …

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